Conversation with a Narcissist
Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010
by Jennifer Stewart
Stepping out of History
I had a conversation with a Narcissist the other day. Narcissists have a curious habit of believing they're the center of the universe. The problem is, they don't realize that's what they believe. In fact, they actually think that they're philanthropists at heart. And they're very good at making you think they are, too. How do they do that? I've spent my life trying to figure it out. The other day, it became a bit clearer.
They are utterly fascinated with every aspect of themselves and have no frame of reference for the idea that somebody else might not find them so fascinating. They pay attention to themselves in such fine detail every little whim, thought, emotion, action. What people say to them, what people do to them.
They constantly build themselves up as the heroine or hero of whatever story they're telling. And trash everybody who doesn't do or say what they want which of course means, literally, everybody. They truly feel badly done by. My are they grandiose. They seem incapable of seeing how they leave destruction in their wake, how they hurt and dump and slash and trash. It's as if they can't hear or see that part of themselves.
But they expect everybody else to see and hear them. They live by the most phenomenal of double standards, and can't recognize it. Can't see it? Won't see it? One can debate that point until the proverbial cows come home, except of course that they never will. They can't acknowledge how much they get from you when they talk and you listen. They believe they're the ones who are giving.
Accountability isn't in a Narcissist's vocabulary. They'll pay lip service to it, because they want to avoid looking bad in their own eyes. Get your head around that one.
Of course you can't have a real conversation with a Narcissist, because they don't care to hear what you have to say, they just want to talk about themselves and how incredible they are. The more they speak and expect you to listen without asking; and neither care whether you want to hear or not, nor have the least bit of interest in knowing anything about you; the smaller you get until you're hardly there at all.
It's very painful. Do I hear you asking the question why do you bother to listen? Why don't you just get off the freaking phone? Hmmm, let's just say this person is somebody I yearn to be loved by and it's proving a wee bit difficult to accept that it ain't going to happen in this lifetime. I know; I'm thick as a brick.
However, do I get some kudos for at least saying after half an hour of feeling blitzed by the Narcissist's insatiable ego "it would be nice if you wanted to ask me how I am"? I heard my voice, it was that of a small child. " Can't you just stop for a few seconds, can't you just give me that much?"
Picture a runaway train's screeching emergency brakes. For a second there I thought the Narcissist (horrible word to type, by the way) might get a glimmer of self-awareness. Silly me. The response was "But why? Can't you just understand that I need somebody to talk to? That it's my way of cheering you up and helping you be positive?"
Whaaatttt???? All I could say, and it does me no credit, was "why don't we try doing it the other way round, I talk about myself non-stop for half an hour and see how you feel at the end?"
It was hopeless. Because it wasn't just the talking and ignoring me that was hurtful, it was the emotional dump that was part of the equation, and beyond that, it was all the years I've tried so hard to be good enough for this person. So that they would give me a tiny bit of love. All the years I watched them suck the life out of a beloved one until the light in their eyes dimmed, their heart and soul shriveled. My Narcissist can be so charming and seductive, seem so loving. Can make me feel so worthless and guilty.
The Narcissist knows no remorse - because nothing is their fault. They don't care whether what they say is hurtful to you. They just need you to feed them. And they can't acknowledge that they are the taker and you are the giver, because they truly don't believe it.
When I tried to very gently bring up that my reaction was about hurt, good old Denial, capital D, rushed in. And along came Victim and Self-Pity to join the party. Just lurking under the surface was Menacing Anger.
I extracted myself as soon as I saw what I was doing. I'm not that child any more. I put the phone down feeling shattered, worthless - and that much more aware that I can't hope to change a Narcissist. Can't hope that they will change of their own volition. They won't, they don't need to. Trying to get a Narcissist to be self aware, and to allow you to be as important in their head as they are, is an oxymoronic occupation.
Furthermore, I can't afford to feel worthless any more. It's enough now. It takes me a week to recover from such a conversation. No matter how hard I try to not have any expectations, to let them be, to put up my boundaries, they have the power to slash me down with a word. The trouble is, whether I like it or not, they have unconditional love from me. No matter what, I can't withdraw my love.
So I have to withdraw my presence. When you're in an abusive relationship and you get to this realization, you walk away. You walk away.
They constantly build themselves up as the heroine or hero of whatever story they're telling. And trash everybody who doesn't do or say what they want which of course means, literally, everybody. They truly feel badly done by. My are they grandiose. They seem incapable of seeing how they leave destruction in their wake, how they hurt and dump and slash and trash. It's as if they can't hear or see that part of themselves.
But they expect everybody else to see and hear them. They live by the most phenomenal of double standards, and can't recognize it. Can't see it? Won't see it? One can debate that point until the proverbial cows come home, except of course that they never will. They can't acknowledge how much they get from you when they talk and you listen. They believe they're the ones who are giving.
Accountability isn't in a Narcissist's vocabulary. They'll pay lip service to it, because they want to avoid looking bad in their own eyes. Get your head around that one.
Of course you can't have a real conversation with a Narcissist, because they don't care to hear what you have to say, they just want to talk about themselves and how incredible they are. The more they speak and expect you to listen without asking; and neither care whether you want to hear or not, nor have the least bit of interest in knowing anything about you; the smaller you get until you're hardly there at all.
It's very painful. Do I hear you asking the question why do you bother to listen? Why don't you just get off the freaking phone? Hmmm, let's just say this person is somebody I yearn to be loved by and it's proving a wee bit difficult to accept that it ain't going to happen in this lifetime. I know; I'm thick as a brick.
However, do I get some kudos for at least saying after half an hour of feeling blitzed by the Narcissist's insatiable ego "it would be nice if you wanted to ask me how I am"? I heard my voice, it was that of a small child. " Can't you just stop for a few seconds, can't you just give me that much?"
Picture a runaway train's screeching emergency brakes. For a second there I thought the Narcissist (horrible word to type, by the way) might get a glimmer of self-awareness. Silly me. The response was "But why? Can't you just understand that I need somebody to talk to? That it's my way of cheering you up and helping you be positive?"
Whaaatttt???? All I could say, and it does me no credit, was "why don't we try doing it the other way round, I talk about myself non-stop for half an hour and see how you feel at the end?"
It was hopeless. Because it wasn't just the talking and ignoring me that was hurtful, it was the emotional dump that was part of the equation, and beyond that, it was all the years I've tried so hard to be good enough for this person. So that they would give me a tiny bit of love. All the years I watched them suck the life out of a beloved one until the light in their eyes dimmed, their heart and soul shriveled. My Narcissist can be so charming and seductive, seem so loving. Can make me feel so worthless and guilty.
The Narcissist knows no remorse - because nothing is their fault. They don't care whether what they say is hurtful to you. They just need you to feed them. And they can't acknowledge that they are the taker and you are the giver, because they truly don't believe it.
When I tried to very gently bring up that my reaction was about hurt, good old Denial, capital D, rushed in. And along came Victim and Self-Pity to join the party. Just lurking under the surface was Menacing Anger.
I extracted myself as soon as I saw what I was doing. I'm not that child any more. I put the phone down feeling shattered, worthless - and that much more aware that I can't hope to change a Narcissist. Can't hope that they will change of their own volition. They won't, they don't need to. Trying to get a Narcissist to be self aware, and to allow you to be as important in their head as they are, is an oxymoronic occupation.
Furthermore, I can't afford to feel worthless any more. It's enough now. It takes me a week to recover from such a conversation. No matter how hard I try to not have any expectations, to let them be, to put up my boundaries, they have the power to slash me down with a word. The trouble is, whether I like it or not, they have unconditional love from me. No matter what, I can't withdraw my love.
So I have to withdraw my presence. When you're in an abusive relationship and you get to this realization, you walk away. You walk away.
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More commentsThis is a great article. Written with raw passion and feeling. So often are we invited into a writer's life but so rarely are we given a full tour of the heart. This is truly a job well done.Thanks for your wonderful response, Charlene.
Nicely written article and I think that we have all met a few people like that in our lifetimes.Glad you could relate, Dan.
People like that are hurtful and hurting people- They've flooded their whole being with themselves- to fill up the empty void- there is no room for anyone else in there. They can't understand that if they would just let someone else in- they wouldn't be so empty. They've panicked- You are a warm and loving person Jenn.- I greatly admire you- Thanks for such a sensitive article- Always- EllaIt's a pleasure, Ella. You have such a big heart.
Jennifer I thought your article was amazing. Narcissism only spreads bile in life. Nothing positive comes from it. Thanks for taking the time to shine a light on it. I am sure every industry has narcissists running amok. It's funny to me that at the independent film level there are those few that spend more time trying to tear down a fellow writer or director then working on their own craft or spreading good cheer. Keep writing!Thanks for your great comment, Sid. It doesn't make sense, does it, that somebody would rather hurt than create!
This was a very revealing article Jennifer. One would think when you give your love unconditionally and don't receive any back, it would be easy to withdraw and walk away, but it isn't, I think sometimes it just makes you want it all the more. This was brilliantly written, giving us a glimpse of the truly caring person you are. I sincerely hope you find the strength to walk away.I absolutely agree, Brianna, it does make you want it more. Thanks for your support.I absolutely agree, Brianna, it does make you want it more. Thanks for your support.
Hi Jennifer.I read your subsequent article before reading this one. I think that was a good order in which to experience them.You've been brutally honest with yourself in both. That is a really hard thing to do. Not knowing about whom you were speaking, I can't really relate to how hard it might be to end the relationship. But I find ending any relationship to be difficult, even when it has become hurtful and damaging and I get nothing out of it. So I offer my deepest condolences.It does get better with time, though, believe me on this. Be firm in your resolve and do not think badly of yourself for the decision. Really, you have to take care of yourself first or you have nothing to give to those who truly need and deserve it. Can I cry now? I've experienced something similar and possibly still am not fully over it.I didn't want this to be about me. :) But ... (that but is so narcissistic, maybe we all have a bit of that in us and that is why it is such a difficult subject) ... I can only speak from my own experience.I finally watched a recording of a movie from a couple weeks ago. In it, the main character ripped his phone out of the wall and went and got a cell phone so that the source of his dis-ease could no longer call him and he could no longer talk to her because he was unable to just put the phone down. I thought it was brilliant. Sometimes we are not strong enough on our own and need a little help. I think that is okay.I sincerely hope that you find peace with this ... and SOON.Hugs,DianneThis is such a great comment, Dianne, thanks for understanding in the way that you do - which I know only comes from experience.I always related so well to the things you say. I'm starting to see that there's a part of me (a very small child still very alive) that's never going to stop wanting the love from this person. I guess the best I can do at the moment is protect that part of me, and do as you say - look after myself.I think I'm in the dark part - you know the bit that happens just before the dawn!love JenniferI know now from reading the other comments who you were speaking of. I think it is only natural to want to feel loved and accepted by this person. I also think that when you do not, this is one of the greatest pains that exists (I was never good enough and I still have issues with that despite him being long dead). But there is nothing you can do to remedy this person's short sightedness.I'm relieved to read that you think you are coming up on a new dawn soon. I'll wax poetical here and write that sometimes we can only see the most clearly when times are the darkest. It forces us to look so much harder.As for that very small child inside you, we all have them. They are a treasure and trouble all at the same time.Love,Dianne
I loved your article. Just for giggles, and not to be too serious here, I have a suggestion that sometimes works. I even apply it to myself when I seem to think I am so awe inspiring, and every sentence has an I in it. Just ask them in mid sentence "why do you always talk in riddles?" When they ask for clarification, tell them you just don't know what they are saying. Let them spin on it for a while, and never answer their constant inquiry, just ask them to keep talking and maybe you can figure it out. Nothing calms the beast like a cup of "Oh please keep talking," and you get to actually control the conversation. Just for fun.Wouldn't work with this narcissist who knows every game in the book and all the ones that have never been written!
A very good article Jennifer. I hope it was not for real, but it seemed to be. You explain the situation well. I hope you have peace.Thanks, Joel, it was, and is real, alas! But I'll find my way to that peace.
Good article Jennifer, my ex was a narcissist and exhibited most of the behaviors that you mentioned.Too bad you didn't write this 8 years ago!And I have just noticed your comment! Thanks, and I'm glad the narcissist is an ex...
AWESOME! I just sent this post out to Twitter.Thanks again, Sid!
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